The comments on Hacker’s piece seem stacked against him, but I think his argument deserves further discussion. Just for example, here in Connecticut, there’s a remedial non-credit math course taught at community colleges. (It may be on it way out.) The class is one that students find difficult. Many fail it several times. Many, many more drop before they fail. My own observation-based sense is that the class is an enormous barrier, because you can’t begin the process of taking classes for credit and maybe transferring to one of the state universities if you haven’t passed this course. And what if you can’t? What if you have the capacity to learn in other ways? The purpose of the class is admirable. The reality is different. And because it’s a pre-requisite, sections get added as needed. Therefore adjuncts are hired as needed. So teaching proficiency may be a bit of a crapshoot.
I have a chip on my shoulder about this because the private school I attended had some really bad math teachers on the faculty. At one point I scored a 750 on my math SATs and was working my ass off and seeing a tutor on Sunday afternoons just to scrape by in an incompetently taught class. I was smart, and my parents were paying somebody extra to help me survive a class at a school with a hefty tuition.
Today, influenced by people like Stephen Strogatz, I see a kind of beauty in math and numbers. It’s not the math. It’s the courses. And they do get in the way of education, more than they should.
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22 Responses to The Algebra Flap
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I see a kind of beauty in math and numbers. It’s not the math. It’s the courses. And they do get in the way of education, more than they should.
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Agreed.
And, speaking of math/Trinity College…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebecca_Goldstein
I could spend hours on this subject as it is close to my heart when I was teaching in Springfield, getting my certs (and going to the Bing to see Edward Scissorhands -to date the era). Not to mention there was a guy who was the center of all ticket traffic downtown and it was quite weird for me to purchase my PVTC monthly pass next to sale posters for Acapulco (in the travel agency) and signage for Guns and Roses in NYC in the next booth at the time but I digress and feel a need to squeeze a few artistic melons….
OK. The digression is done. Melons rule.
I worked for a trade school that did intensive computer training for the state and corps in the Springfield area. Here’s the problem: do you take a student that you know can’t write a Lotus/Excel macro and understand that and can’t write an IF statement? Well. The administration tried the stretch and ran afoul of the Feds because the Feds check employment history and taking kids who don’t pass an entrance exam and can’t be placed are a huge problem. The Guido truck drivers backlash clamped down on them
Do you run two tracks for Medical Assisting for those that actually passed the math and med portions–kids who handle the vocab and understood dosages and needles and gauges. Or do you pass them all on because they tried, wear some really short skirts and great lip gloss ( not to be racist but I like young Latinas — they really are the types of kids you want to see do better) but do you put them in a hospital knowing the truth about their skills just to get the Fed aid?
I didn’t like the moral decisions and left that industry. I think you understand. I’ve written this before: the Guido hairdressing schools moved upscale into state union positions.
What’s clouding this of course is the way positions are bought and sold in state government. Skill, capability and results are not the way legislation gets moved and leaders get chosen. Put your name on a list for a position and you get hired when it comes up and you can’t get fired even if you steal from the taxpayers and the state.
Given that, is there any reason we hold to academic standards anymore? The people at the state know this: There are more dummies in SEBAC than in mental wards. Standards for hiring and firing and promotion and governor appointment are a freaking joke. Hire an over- credentialed idiot in a public face position and you are golden. God knows all they did was sit there and do the academic paper thing which is like rolling off a log after you do 10 of them.
I went to a tech focused school for my undergraduate degree and the conversation tended to revolve around why they had to learn about writing, American History, or English literature when they were studying to be engineers.
Ultimately I think its one of those questions about whether people should worry about things outside their corner of their world. Algebra is useful tool and important building block for a tackling a great many problems. It has much intrinsic value. You can go through life not knowing Algebra, much in the way some people go through life not voting or not listening to NPR. By not doing those things you are personally worse off. But for most people they are well enough off that it’s not a big deal. Should we lower the criteria for the credential? High school, maybe. College and higher education is optional, so definitely not.
OpleI’m a math and science person who has had to plough through classes that required essays and response papers and a lot of other kinds of writing that I found very nebulous and vaguely defined. But college isn’t trade school. We study outside of our field of interest precisely in order to learn how to think about things differently. To think outside our own boxes, as it were. Even in the liberal arts, there are problems that can’t be solved by intuition alone. The study of math teaches a linear, methodical way of tackling a problem to people who might otherwise shoot from the hip and hope for the best.
I did well in algebra and geometry and drafting too (one of just two girls in the school who took the class, back in pre-history), and have used all of them in much of my work-life as well as in hobbies and my current home renovation.
In the Movie Peggy Sue Got Married, Kathleen Turner goes back to her high school days. She is leaving her algebra class, hands in her test paper blank and the teacher asks “What is the meaning of this Peggy Sue?”
Ms. Turner’s character says in response. . . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3eKzmozvrI
Oh and for those of you that think Algebra is the most useless course ever created by Man, you evidently have not attempted to take “Political Science Research Methods” which is nothing like it sounds like.
I thought that course would be fun but it’s a Mad Hatter course in nonsense and it was being taught by the nicest America-bashing Communist I ever meet. After one class I dropped it immediately. I ran into a friend from the same class and he dropped immediately it too. Utter poppycock. At least with algebra there is logic to it even if its beyond you (and it certainly is in my case).
I am too damn old for crap like that.
John, having just finished that show on trolling which you somehow were unable to summon the — what’s the word? — to participate in, I find myself wondering to what degree you are or are not a troll.
In some ways, no.
But one way you fit the description is your determination to drag every single conversation back to your own one or two issues. (Conservative posturing and the death penalty.)
I mean, this is a post about algebra. And it’s far from the first time you (to say nothing have Todd) have tried to hijack an interesting conversation by other people…people considerably less monotonous than you …and divert it back toward your two-note symphony.
To see how ludicrous Hacker’s argument is, substitute the word writing for algebra. PZ Myers makes this point beautifully.
Figuring out what this blog post was about was harder than an algebra problem. NYTimes: Is Algebra Necessary for those of you who were similarly confused.
This is near and dear to my heart, too! I left a career as an RN to go back to school to earn a BA in American Studies. I started at Tunxis CC to be sure my then 49 year old brain still worked. Thankfully it did but my plan to get an AA degree and then move on hit the math wall! I refused to waste money and time on remedial math courses. I found Trinity College’s Individualized Degree Program and jumped ship. Of course I had to take math 101 but it counted and I was blessed with a great teacher. I handled Stats and graduated just fine. I know that Tunxis and other CT CCs are trying to adress this.
When I whined to that excellent Math teacher that I would never need to know most of that Math crap, she asked how practical it was for me to parse every line of the Mayflower Compact, I shut up and pushed on!
I’m sorry… Let me see if I’m getting this right… The answer to America’s low proficiency in math is to dumb down the entire nation’s curriculum (substantially) so they don’t have to try as hard?
WHAT?
That has got to be the worst idea I’ve ever heard! Any American with an average level of intelligence can learn algebra and beyond!
http://simplepolitiks.wordpress.com/2012/07/30/america-sucks-at-math-solution-cut-out-algebra/
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I’m inclined to believe that our “education system” does a poor job of revealing the beauty of just about any subject; history, poetry/literature, physical sciences, and math. There is a chicken/egg issue, but I do believe technical understanding of math can be inspired by a pedagogy that features the history of algebra out of geometry, as opposed to one that features drilling of abstract algebraic techniques in isolation.
For most of our addledecesnt education we are generally introduced to concepts in much the same way as another language. In short, the person who will be going to Tibet will have more of a willingness to learn Tibetian and will be more inspired to search out its subtlies.
But most of our population is happy to spend their time traveling only to England or place where English can be understood. So be it.
Every subject has its own language which is embraced by folk for various reasons. As Sherry suggested, why know how to parse a sentence if you only need to communicate to a butcher?
The beauty of math or any other subject lies in the mind of the observer who will tear into it when the circumstanes are “right” in their particular lives. In a sense, it is an unraveling of our genetic code which addicts us into believing that life is the center of all that is and will ever be, so some of us assign it God status, define it as beauty and truth much as a narcotic.
In the real world is an imperfect tool which helps me survive in human endeavors yet I prefer logic. I am a great computer programer and analyst yet I barely can hold my own in math. Most folk feel that math and logic are inseperable much like judism and Hebrews, yet it is possible to be jewish without being Hebrew and vice versa. So it is the same with logic and math yet for both examples, folk will swear it is impossible.
Algebra is a impenetrable gateway for many and is not suited to propel those folk into fields which don’t correspond to their aptitudes and in fact can be a barrier.
In days gone by, colleges had to be more selective and courses such as this were needed to insure such, however college has since become an extension of high school for the masses and should take a long hard look at its admission requirements as well as completion criteria.
By the way, didn’t Al E. have problems with math in school?
Melissa Harris-Parry is calling for the end of grading. There’s a movement toward an open schools format where students can attend whenever they want and progress at their own rate. Better to keep the kids off the streets and so forth and not drive them away with silly standards like proficiency or accountability.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/lets-get-rid-of-grades/2012/04/19/gIQAwie5TT_story.html
Word Problems
1. If Bush’s last day saw the national debt at 10.626 trillion, and in April of 2012 Obama’s White House sees it now at 16.3 trillion, who’s the big spender?
A. Bush
B. Obama
C. It’s Bush’s fault if you circled B you are a hater and you fail!
2. If unemployment for George Bush’s eight years averaged 5% while under Obama it’s averaging 9% who did a better job?
A. Bush
B. Obama
C. Of course Barry’s figures are better…he’s the smartest president ever!
3. If Bush’s last year saw Americans on food stamps at 28.2 million while today it’s at 44.7 million…which president has/had a better handle on taking care of Americans’ basic needs?
A. Bush
B. Obama
C. Obama you big silly, the more people cashing a government check the better!
Last question:
If Barry needs six of the ten swing states to win re-election vs. Mitt who wins?
A. Mitt
B. Barry
C. Doesn’t matter the media, Soros, and Team Obama are going to steal this elction.
I am troll. It’s true.
er make that I AM a troll.
@ John:
I beg to differ-your posts are intelligent, insightful and your use your first and last name.
the basic “college bound” high school student math sequence is algebra, geometry, algebra 2. The first two are worthwhile in that if not exposed to these ways of thinking, students might not know how much they enjoy it. Algebra 2, for many, including me back in the late 70′s, is a total waste of time if you didn’t enjoy algebra 1, yet some 25 years later, the sequence continues.
Replace it, if desired, with a more practical math like accounting or statistics. Most colleges find this sequence undesirable, unfortunately, and, alas, would rather see the all too useless algebra 2.
– Nice of you to say Todd.
Replace it, if desired, with a more practical math like accounting or statistics. Most colleges find this sequence undesirable, unfortunately, and, alas, would rather see the all too useless algebra 2.
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http://www.udacity.com/
I do think the current higher education arrangement, not to say racket, is bound to change. It may even be an artificially inflated bubble set to burst. This Udacity deal is free, and appears practical.